A conversation between Robert Walker and Ed Greenebaum explores the concept of punishment and its role in our society. Robert Walker takes the position that punishment can be a very effective means of reducing crime, that much of the punishment we give to criminals is ineffective because in is not painful enough. He also says that this nation's moral decline is responsible for the level of crime we experience, but does not make clear the relationship between more effective punishment and moral climate. Ed Greenebaum expresses doubt about the necessity of punishment to foster good behavior in children and the effectiveness of punishment as a deterrent to crime. They both illustrate their positions with stories about their personal experiences. John Crosby provides an analysis of the dynamics of the conversation at the close of the hour.